|  Chapter 149 Web Site |  Kirx Klox Special Project |  CH 149 MENTORS | 
CHAPTER 149, THE LEADING COLLECTOR'S HOROLOGICAL CLUB, ASSISTS AND EDUCATES ITS MEMBERS>>KEEP UP WITH CURRENT RESEARCH!
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board

The original NAWCC internet chapter
established July 8th, 1990
President & Admin; Jon Hanson
Admin: John LaCambria

Chapter 149, protecting our passion one watch at a time!


Read our Standards of Conduct

login.php?sid=6c1a03b2e52926518e80836a63eedd9d profile.php?mode=register&sid=6c1a03b2e52926518e80836a63eedd9d faq.php?sid=6c1a03b2e52926518e80836a63eedd9d search.php?sid=6c1a03b2e52926518e80836a63eedd9d

WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Value Line for Collectors » IMPORTANT QUESTION re RARE RAILROADS, REFINISHED Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Post new topic  Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:33 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 5370
Location: Melbourne Australia




I prefer the way the car people do it.

Assume every car has been messed with and make the owner PROVE it is original. THEN certify it as such.

I think that is also what they do with signatures.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:04 pm Reply with quote
doc ron
Chapter Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 197




these english redos i have seen are really ugly and worse that a chip or a hairline

maybe he should have contacted roy e for decals

doc ron

_________________
doc ron
chapter 149 member 13
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:02 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3817
Location: Indiana




doc ron wrote:
these english redos i have seen are really ugly and worse that a chip or a hairline

maybe he should have contacted roy e for decals


Right on the money Doc. Right on the money.

_________________
John Cote (Member #105)
Membership Chairman - Ch-149
Past President - Ch-18
http://www.interstatetime.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:42 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 5370
Location: Melbourne Australia




doc ron wrote:
these english redos i have seen are really ugly and worse that a chip or a hairline

maybe he should have contacted roy e for decals

doc ron


I agree as well but I also think that as technology gets cheaper and more accessible repro dials will get better.

This problem is not going to go away.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:59 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3817
Location: Indiana




StephanG wrote:


I agree as well but I also think that as technology gets cheaper and more accessible repro dials will get better.

This problem is not going to go away.


Who is going to want to make good repro pocket watch dials? Not going to happen.

_________________
John Cote (Member #105)
Membership Chairman - Ch-149
Past President - Ch-18
http://www.interstatetime.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 27977
Location: Boston, Massachusetts




Who would want them? Maybe newbies for what common Elgins, Walthams, Illinois, Hamilton BUT MOST OF THESE CAN BE BOUGHT ORIGINAL!

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson,
"playing" with watches now for 71 years
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!

American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" POCKET abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:15 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3817
Location: Indiana




Jon wrote:
Who would want them? Maybe newbies for what common Elgins, Walthams, Illinois, Hamilton BUT MOST OF THESE CAN BE BOUGHT ORIGINAL!


Exactly, the dials real collectors need are for scarce and rare watches and real collectors don't want repro dials for these watches. There are a lot of real dials for common RRs and other common pocket watches and there are still a lot of SLaRose repros out there if people want them.

While making a perfect new American Grade dial is probably not impossible it would probably never be practical.

_________________
John Cote (Member #105)
Membership Chairman - Ch-149
Past President - Ch-18
http://www.interstatetime.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 27977
Location: Boston, Massachusetts




A collector may want a rare dial, but only needs ONE; no profit here for dial makers as these people have to make quantities to make it profitable.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson,
"playing" with watches now for 71 years
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!

American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" POCKET abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:09 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 5370
Location: Melbourne Australia




Jon wrote:
A collector may want a rare dial, but only needs ONE; no profit here for dial makers as these people have to make quantities to make it profitable.


This is increasingly not the case.
As technology gets better it is becoming easier to make small quantities and one offs.
The equipment to do so is also getting better and cheaper.
It started with 3D printing and that has taken off.
You can now get things printed directly in METAL and I know for a fact this is revolutionising the model train possibilities.
Castings that were previously impossible to make can now be obtained IN SMALL QUANTITIES or as 1 offs if you are keen enough and prices keep coming down.

Sooner or later someone will turn their attention to watch dials.

Why would they do this you say.

Simple - look at the cost of some of the dials being sold. There is money to be made if someone gets it right.

Will they be perfect? no.

Will they be rubbish? at the moment they are but like I said they WILL get better and even if an expert can pick it they only need them good enough to satisfy the average punter who will buy them if he can get away with it.

How good do they need to be to get you a sale on Ebay ??????????

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:53 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 5370
Location: Melbourne Australia




Who wants to make dials.

Likely enough info here to get you started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bDtCwNo-oo

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:01 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3817
Location: Indiana




StephanG wrote:
Who wants to make dials.

Likely enough info here to get you started.


It's a great video and I have seen it before but we are talking about reproducing vintage dials here. Nobody ever said it would be impossible. I just think it is impractical to think that it would be cost justifiable for anyone to reproduce a rare and beautiful dial like an American grade Wally. I also doubt that it would be easy or even possible to do it so right as to fool anybody.

Those of us who have been around long enough probably remember a friend in Wisconsin who used his lab at the university to "fix" some rare dials with actual fired in enamel. The work he did was superb and close to undetectable. He told me it was so time consuming and took so much specialized equipment that he had to give it up because nobody would pay him enough.

I will never say it can't be done. I have an Italian wrist watch collector friend who just had a woman in northern Italy repair a 1930s enamel dial for a historic military Longines Chrono for him and I swear you can't tell it has been repaired. The watch looks great. I guess I am sort of OK with this. People have been doing their best for years to repair the enamel dials on Patek Philippe Calatrava ref 2526 watches. If you want to spend a lot of money Patek will even probably make a new dial for you.

I just don't think we will ever see new mass produced exact replica American pocket watch enamel dials. It just isn't economically feasible.

DISCLAIMER: I have been wrong before.

_________________
John Cote (Member #105)
Membership Chairman - Ch-149
Past President - Ch-18
http://www.interstatetime.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
My example of a redone dial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:03 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5873




Here is a dial I had redone by Dennis Nichenson of Cary, North Carolina. I do not know if he is still alive or even still does this kind of work. This was a "Fantasy Piece" I had made about 20 years ago when I had delusions of actually making watches.

I bought this 80mm Swiss 8-Day at a #1 mart. At the time, it had a broken staff, damaged dial, and missing the crown wheel hub and screw. The watch was complete otherwise. I paid $125 for it.

I had Matt Henning make the staff and movt parts. And then I sent the dial to Dennis. It took him about 3-4 months to do. I think I paid a little over $400. I had my Company name and address added to the dial. I hoped the addition would be in Gothic, like the Bunns. Dennis said there isn't enough room to do it in Gothic, but he could still add the name in a different font. He did a great job reproducing the dial. I still can't tell if it was a repair or a total redo. The only area he struggled with - and he told me this - was the glaze. It is very slightly wavy. But you can't tell this unless you have the bezel off and a strong loupe on.

Here is the watch:

_________________
Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:10 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5873




To continue:

I have about $1,000 invested in this. Yes, it is a lot of money, but I still enjoy the watch.

I guess my point is several:

Yes, there is a market for reproducing dials,

I would dare say for less important watches, who cares?

If it is a significant watch, or historically important one, The watch is best enjoyed and appreciated when it is complete. As long as the replacement dial is well documented and marked as such, I have no problem with that.

I have a Waltham Ball Wind Indicator. They made only 50 of these watches. My example has a reproduced dial. I would prefer an all original example, but cannot afford it. They go for about $23,000. I bought mine for just under $6,000.

That's my 2 cents~

_________________
Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:28 am Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1824




Hi Neil The dial looks pretty good do you have a before picture and besides your name what else did he do. Geno
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:29 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 27977
Location: Boston, Massachusetts




Was this guy Dennis N. that part time watch dealer ex schoolteacher from NY? If so, he probably sent out the dial to GB, thus the 4 months to complete the job.

One day 100 yrs from now the watch people will ask did Wohl make that watch or was this a dealer name or a jeweler? Rolling Eyes

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson,
"playing" with watches now for 71 years
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!

American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" POCKET abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMPORTANT QUESTION re RARE RAILROADS, REFINISHED
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Value Line for Collectors
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT - 6 Hours  
Page 5 of 8  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
  
  
 Post new topic  Reply to topic  


Contact Us
©2006 NAWCC Chapter 149 "Early American Watch Club". OWNER.
FREE Web Hosting and Web Design provided by Web Horology

Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Style by Vjacheslav Trushkin