WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board

Jon · Chapter President

I believe you missed one of my important points. That being said what BoB Bennett did to damaged and worthess dials spending his wifes money for rebulding them was his business BUT HAVING BEEN MADE and THEIR PRESENCE OUT IN THE WATCHWORLD ONLY HINDERS FUTURE GENERATIONS (and some present day collectors) because we all know that many will be sold to FISH and the unaware as ORIGINAL!

By creating fakes future collectors will get screwed--this is a dis-service to the hobby!

As far as the GREAT BOB BENNETT COLL--HIS COLLECTION IS FOREVER TAINTED. Future generations might refer to him as that guy who faked up many of his Hamiltons (and not just the dials)!

Doesn't this affect his reputation as a collector?

Bryan · Chapter Member

Members would be wise to practice social distancing, and stay minimum 6 ft away from these stinky, tainted watches!

Jon · Chapter President

toxic dials

interstatetime · Chapter Member

Jon · Chapter President

1. It was a shame that BB did what he did--remaking dials, re-doing gilt damascening, replacing screws with gypo ones, and incorrectly filling in lettering.

2. It was a shame he wouldn't listen to reason.

3. It is a shame we have to address this issue to notice the folks.

4. It is a shame some collectors will get screwed in the future getting stuck buying such KAKA.

5. It might become a shame collectors will have to check with FF, John L, or BDE wasting their time as to the legitimacy of their Hamilton watches.

6. It is a shame if it might affect Hamilton collecting.

Shame, shame, shame........

interstatetime · Chapter Member

Shame indeed. I agree...I fully agree.

Sangamo · Chapter Member

when i first saw one of the 'refinished' dials, immediately observed the "tell"

the 'slick', 'wet', finish, and the rounding of the sinks....
it was like a trademark of this English supplier... almost instantly recognizable.

IIRC, these took a path through the Late Phil Priestly, who was the contact to the English source.

I'd believe Bennett's examples would have had a path through Glen E, to Phil, to England and back...

The English source learned, as later examples still retained the 'wet' finish, but the edges retained some sharpness.... was told they disassembled the dial sections, did their work and epoxied the sections together again.

There's been a couple of US sources, but their quality seemed really bad...

Cote is correct... it seems common in the WW world to spiff up a dial....

I think my preference is to accept a damaged 'scarce' dial over a re-finish... common dials CAN be switched....and yeah that ia a frowned upon practice... guilty.

interstatetime · Chapter Member

Jon · Chapter President

To add to Terry's explanation--

The dial are sandpapers or grinded down with a new coat of sort of plastic or epoxy finish; then they are silk screened to add the co. nams and the lettering, etc. Yes, the DS dial components are re married.

Many problems with the finished product--color is always off, lettering not exact, dial feet slightly off (if removed and replaced), backs of dials incorrect--color and fabric, rounded edges, sloping at DS area, and a weird "PLASTIC" look.

Like Terry and others I'd only want the original, damaged or broken. These refinished and remad dials are a horror show!

Yes, these were redone in GB (I once had the name of the butcher who did this work)--maybe in a drawer some place in the catacombs.

Lastly, this woe=rk was very expensive--could have been up to 200. each back 20-30 yrs ago.

Bryan · Chapter Member

Plastic dials, plastic brains

pocwatjim · Chapter Member

OK, OK, enough of bashing old Bob Bennett.

I met Bob at the National in Houston because he had the National display and had most of his Hamilton up for viewing. I had talked with him on the phone for several years and was glad to meet him in person. Old Bob was a retired Male nurse, in the Air Force, and smoked like a smokestack,yes, unfiltered, and this came back to haunt him in his last 10 years because he was on oxygen and quit traveling.

Over the years he would pull out dials that were damaged or ones where he would remove the DS to go on a B&O or similar and we had many conversations about this and I formed the opinion that, this is what made a old guy happy, so everyone knew it and then he pulled out a 2-Tone that didn't look right, we all just said Bob, everyone will know it's not original and go on....

I put many of lids on plastic boxes for him to make up weird colors that no one had ever seen and he loved it...

He pulled out a balance cock with complete balance dangling from it, to show me and it had the #, X'd out and another stamped on it. I said Bob everyone will know that is not factory and I knew he had an 11 J missing the Balance Bridge and he had been looking for many years for one so Glen or someone made one for him. He said that is the way they did it at the factory,,,,,,, I said sorry but no, they didn't, but he was happy that he finally completed the 4 types of 11J's,,,,

Bob wanted to sell some things as he went downhill and kept trying to sell me Hamilton #23 and he said, I am not going to take a GD penny less that what I paid for it (5K). I found Hamilton #22 and called him and can still hear the +!%$#@&*(,

I really liked Bob and won't condemn him for pursuing his passion,,,, just be careful and educate yourself and if you don't, well,,, those are the best lessons learned ,,,,,

interstatetime · Chapter Member

I will say that Freddy's descriptions for J&H are pretty good...see below. If people buy these watches thinking they are anything but refinished they are truly stupid and can't read to boot.

Lot # 125
Estimate 400.00 - 650.00 USD
Group - Category Jewelry & Watches
Lead Hamilton, Grade 939 (marked), 17J, 18S
Description
Hamilton, Grade 939 (marked), 17J, 18S, 4oz coin silver drum style box hinge HC recase, bow with chain guards, "Hamilton Watch Co, H." marked white enamel DS dial, SW-LS, gold jewel settings, nickel damascene, s#15983.
This fully marked version of the Grade 939 is quite scarce, and this particular example is listed in the Hamilton factory ledger as having been sold to A.N. Anderson of Minneapolis, Minnesota on December 4th, 1917.
The "Hamilton Watch Co., H" marked dial is typically found among watches of earlier vintage that were made for Frank Hammond, who was a railroad watch inspector based in Buffalo, New York, and this dial presumably is not the original to this watch which likely originally had a dial with simple script "Hamilton" signature.
From the well-known Hamilton collection of Robert Bennett of Olivehurst, California.
CONDITION: Mvt: Running, excellent cosmetic mvt condition overall, balance jewel setting is a brass replacement and is below a metal cap with brushed finish that is likely also a replacement as it lacks the polished steel finish typical to this mvt grade, scattered micro-fine scratches to barrel bridge and balance cock; dial with slight unevenness to the seating of its seconds-register indicating re-securing of dial sections and suggesting possibility of this dial's outer chapter and/or seconds-register being replaced having come from another Hamilton dial as a donor, dial with flake at center of seconds-register, few scattered extremely faint hls to center; fine hands; case shows little wear, few very shallow dents to front and rear causing some ripple of reflected light, numerous scattered nicks to rear, excellent engraving detail; tight bow, crown shows light wear; good glass crystal.[/b]

Richard Bird · Chapter Member

Thank god i read this thread, I for sure won't be buying any of these watches Crying or Very sad

pocwatjim · Chapter Member

John,
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that Fred has gone beyond what most would do to point out the changes that Bob made to his collection.

I suggested to Bob's wife Marie to contact J&H about his collection and when Fred told me she had, I had some conversations with Fred about some of Bob's watches, so that it would not embarrass J&H, and Fred has stepped up in his honest descriptions.

Jon · Chapter President

JH auctions has to do theseover the top descriptiond because of the many returns they have had in the past.

Plastic==make, bake, shake, fake and take! Wink