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WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Value Line for Collectors » HOT POTATO watches Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:47 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




interstatetime wrote:
StephanG wrote:
I am not a friend to those who create franken watches but I despair of a hobby where such can be done with the expectation of making a profit simply because it is so easy to fool those new to the hobby.

Doesn't this tell us that something is wrong.

Price guides have been around for 30 plus years but with all the time and effort that has gone into them they are just as mis leading or perhaps worse than they have ever been.

Where is the advancement ???????


Man Stephan...I am sure glad I don't see things your way. For you everything has to be bad and getting worse.

The way I see it there have always been crooks and there have always been fish. The big difference these days is that the internet exposes more of everything good and bad to anyone who takes the trouble to look and pay attention. The bad is exposed...The good and everything in-between is exposed.

I choose to see it all but concentrate on the good. This is a great time to be a watch collector...for anyone. It is a great time to accumulate knowledge as well as goods.

I feel bad for you that you are so depressed about things. I wish I could help. I wish I could make you see the good...but I think you are too wrapped up in your misery. I look forward to the day when something positive comes from your keyboard...but I am not holding my breath.


I am not complaining per say but merely responding to the OP.

We as a group of collectors, not just in this place but in watch collecting in general, are the ones training the next generation of collectors.

They will be as open and sharing or as secretive and mercenary as we train them to be.

I direct your attention to this web site in particular and ask one simple question.

Would a new collector finding this place for the first time and browsing through its pages find more information than he would have 10 years ago or less ? Even if it is the same where is the advancement ?

As for buying and selling I am fully aware how to play that game and have been doing it successfully for over 40 years. Just not with watches.

I thought this hobby was supposed to be about collecting and preserving watches.

Perhaps that is the problem. People have forgotten the difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:58 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




Oh, come on--you don't think the squealing dealers and fast buck artists aren't mercenary? These clowns, mostly with little or no money, not only want your watches but they want all the "secret" info in which to use to profit and ram it into newbies! Then, they will switch, hype and lie--IT IS IN THEIR GREEDY THICK RED BLOOD!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
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American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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Location: Boston, Ma




One well known assoc watch w...e once told a 149 member that he had some "secret" info, but that he wanted to charge the member for that info!

That is the definition on an informational w...e!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:48 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Location: Melbourne Australia




Can you not see that it is the secretive nature of collecting that creates the very environment where rammers and con merchants thrive.

Once everything is out in the open and the truth is known to all they can no longer do what they do.

But then there would be no more rips either.

As for this being a great time to collect it likely is but the flip side of that is perhaps stuff is getting cheaper because few other people want it any more.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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Fine watches still bring top prices. What has been happening is that with so many watches coming out on the market recently the abundance of goods creates two things: awareness of just how NOT SO RARE or overvalued many so called "rarities" are and the opportunity to select good pieces for ones permanent collection.

In this market true experts can flourish! It is all in the true knowledge and long term experience--always has been and always will be. Idea

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:22 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1611




Stephan, what truth to who and how would they get it. There are thousands of variations, models and case combinations and now throw in condition which can vary the actual pricing 50-100% or more. So who do you think is going to give out this information and how. You would have to update the guide yearly and give new actual prices to thousands of watches and that wouldn't account for case combinations, changing metals prices and esoteric info known by very few. There are 4 major markets and you have to involved on all of them on a daily basis to get a sense of pricing, even knowing the fact that the same watch can and will bring different pricing each time it is offered. I buy and sell every single day as I have for the last 40 years, I couldn't give away my knowledge even if i wanted to, who would even take the years it would take to just to listen. I, like others on here have supreme confidence in our ability to instantly know exactly what we want to pay, without having to go to a book or ask anybody. That is called knowledge only gained after many many years, the world you seek does not exist. It only took Jon one sentence to give the same outlook. Geno
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5178




Well Said, Geno. What is unique about you and Jon is your perspective, with 40 and 65 years respectively, you are able to see and understand things that even with my 23 years (and being a watchmaker) can't hold a candle to!

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It ain't that difficult to understand the answer
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




Thanks, Geno.

I repeat and always stand by my remarks.

"In this market true experts can flourish! It is all in the true knowledge and long term experience--always has been and always will be."

Idea

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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Re: It ain't that difficult to understand the answer
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:54 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




Jon wrote:
Thanks, Geno.

I repeat and always stand by my remarks.

"In this market true experts can flourish! It is all in the true knowledge and long term experience--always has been and always will be."

Idea


You are not looking at the bigger picture.
Where will new collectors ever get the exposure to watches that the current old boys have.

It simply can't be done that way any longer.

So unless we can find a way to pass on the information once the current lot of experts fall off the perch that will be it and the hobby will decend into madness.

As for saying it can't be done because there are to many variables that is just a cop out.

It is done with cars

Make, model, year, options, condition, add ons, miliage etc etc
and it is easy to find for most including imports.
How many cars are out there .............
They even give insurance value, retail, trade, and trade in.
There are a few where the guide says - requires to be valued. but they are the exception.

It is also done for real eatate. How many variations do you want.
Australia has even brought in laws to fine agents who get it wrong by more than 10% unless there is a good reason.

It could be done for watches as well or at least for most of them if there was a will to do it.

I suspect there are to many who like things just as they are.

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pure nonsense
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:11 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




BS!

There has been more exposure to pocket watches in the past 10 years than ever!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:01 am Reply with quote
StephanG
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Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




More tall stories as well and the truth is as illusive as ever for those starting out.

They can't all ask you.

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Re: It ain't that difficult to understand the answer
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:41 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
Chapter Officer
Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3270
Location: Indiana




StephanG wrote:

You are not looking at the bigger picture.
Where will new collectors ever get the exposure to watches that the current old boys have.

It simply can't be done that way any longer.


There is no point in talking to a guy who won't listen. Stephan will stick to his premise no matter what evidence is put in front of him. The above statement is so patently absurd that it should keep all of us from ever trying to convince him ever again.

I give up.

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Re: It ain't that difficult to understand the answer
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:57 am Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1611




interstatetime wrote:
StephanG wrote:

You are not looking at the bigger picture.
Where will new collectors ever get the exposure to watches that the current old boys have.

It simply can't be done that way any longer.


There is no point in talking to a guy who won't listen. Stephan will stick to his premise no matter what evidence is put in front of him. The above statement is so patently absurd that it should keep all of us from ever trying to convince him ever again.

I give up.
Me too, the only way to give a newbie my knowledge would be to do a Vulcan Mind Meld. Live Long and Prosper Geno
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:06 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




Yeah, what is a lifetime of study, research and hands on participation worth?

Question Rolling Eyes

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3357
Location: OH




Jon wrote:
Yeah, what is a lifetime of study, research and hands on participation worth?

Question Rolling Eyes


PRICELESS.

(NOT ads! ) Very Happy

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