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WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Value Line for Collectors » HOT POTATO watches Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
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HOT POTATO watches
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25421
Location: Boston, Ma




Do the members here fully understand HOT POTATO WATCHES? These are watches that cannot find a home. The dealers and speculators begin passing around these watches fast and furious much of the time on consignment.

Why can't these HOT POTATO watches find a permanent home--because maybe they are not as rare as many thought (esp newbies, dealers & collectors alike), are in bad or rough condition, recased and redialed, overvalued, falsely priced, etc., etc. Even the dealers make gross mistakes.

For many of these types of watches the collector is rarer than the watch, so prices thought to be a bargain yesterday are now over priced today. The smaller dealers simply can't afford to inventory so many FALLEN STARS! Therefore, the watches are getting passed around on consignment from one dealer to another for convention offerings, web sites, watch lists, or from collector to dealer on memo hoping to get out!

How many HOT POTATO watches have you noticed?

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SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5128




I own a few hot potatoes~ Sad

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:56 pm Reply with quote
HOWARD
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 93




As a Howard collector I remember what happened when Flautie ran up early Howard watches and movements, raised the prices, switched literally everything in a watch and then had to sell his collection because of an IRS issue. It took years for those collectors to regroup and build up confidence collecting Howard watches at any level. I believe this reflects a very thin market on many watches.

Howard

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Re: HOT POTATO watches
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:40 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 3229
Location: Indiana




Jon wrote:


Why can't these HOT POTATO watches find a permanent home--because...

...For many of these types of watches the collector is rarer than the watch


'Sall ya need to know.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:54 am Reply with quote
Jon
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Location: Boston, Ma




Judging by the mass quantities of many early Howards thrown onto the market, the process will have to begin all over again............. the price of gold is what is holding up their values from sinking even lower?

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:47 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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Aren't many of these watches being scrapped? Just will be a smaller pool to choose from the next round!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:51 am Reply with quote
geno
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Posts: 1591




Without the intrinsic value of gold and silver and goldfilled in watches, the market right now would be extremely weaker than it already is and the liquidity factor would be awful. You have a dwindling demand factor which I think will last for many more years ahead, there are simply not enough new collectors of pocket watches to change the demand. Right now if it weren't for flippers, the guys who buy in one place and flip in another, the market again would be much weaker. Right now is a great time to upgrade your collection and get rid of any dogs. While you will get less for what you now try to sell, it will offset by your ability to also buy cheaper the items you want. None of this matters if you happen to like the items you no own or are not dependent on them for your lifestyle. I always try to get rid of any dogs or hot potatoes as soon as possible and keep the items I like. There is extreme weakness in a lot of items after the $2500 mark, while the low or very low end, while weaker, there still is demand. Just the market as I see it. Geno
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:53 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Joined: 03 Dec 2002
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Location: Indiana




Neilywatch wrote:
Aren't many of these watches being scrapped? Just will be a smaller pool to choose from the next round!


A lot of these watches are hard to scrap from the standpoint of recovery of investment. A lot of these watches have sold for way above scrap. They were sold, as Jon said, as original or rare watches. It is hard for a guy who spend thousands on a gold cased watch to scrap the case for a grand or so and be stuck with a worthless movement and dial.

More likely, as Jon said, somebody is looking to hook the next fish and send the hot potato to a new home.

Jon and Geno have seen more of these than I have but I know of hot potatoes which have been circulating for years and years. Sometimes they go underground for a while but some come back on the market and you go..."Oh, that thing again?"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:58 am Reply with quote
Jon
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Location: Boston, Ma




And many are hot potato Howards due to condition issues and/or lack of originality. Odermott coll'n dump as an example.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:20 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1591




Jon wrote:
And many are hot potato Howards due to condition issues and/or lack of originality. Odermott coll'n dump as an example.
Right and most all of these were nothing more than scrappers. Geno
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:23 pm Reply with quote
geno
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If not for greed and ignorance many people could not sell at all. Geno
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25421
Location: Boston, Ma




RO sure had a lot of scrappers!

I say scrap that crap and make the GOTFWs even more valuable! Laughing

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3332
Location: OH




I'd like to hear what you guys consider "scrappers", ie those watches that you think "deserve" to be scrapped.

Do you guys REALLY feel that worn gold Howards are deserving of being scrapped? These were typically high quality cases that, although worn, are well constructed and robust pieces. If they are damaged that is a different story and in that case turn up the furnace

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:50 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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Location: Melbourne Australia




Just remember that new collectors have to start somewhere and there is a place for less then perfect watches if they are priced reasonably and described honestly.

Part of the learning process for me at least was playing with watches, handling them, servicing them etc.
You don't do that with GOTFW watches.

The problem I see is the number of people wanting to flip at a profit and that can only go on for so long before someone has to loose.

Not everyone wants to collect museum quality but nor do they want to pay top dollar for well used watches.

It's all the puff and blow and the lack of an honest and open market that puts people off. Too much crap and not enough fact.

One only has to look at how the NAWCC views the market place to see the problem.

No talk about values unless you pay us a fee. No discussion about live auctions. Never call out the dealers. Closed marts. Anything for a dollar.

The current state of things owes much to many years of this kind of attitude and it will take many years to fix it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:52 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
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Posts: 1591




Webster definition of a scrapper "Any gold watch that can't be sold for more than the sum of the case and movement' Condition is the number one reason, collectors, including me will over pay for superb condition or scarcity of motiff, but worn ones usually will not bring the value of the gold and the movement unless the case is scrapped and the movement is sold seperately, like a lot of the 12s Hamilton and Howard movements you see on Ebay. A big old worn Howard with 1500 or more in gold, is very tough to sell for more than the scrap value as a watch, this is the Market as it now stands. Geno
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HOT POTATO watches
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