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what is the very best
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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Forget the buyers' premiums--THE VERY BEST AUCTIONS ARE PURE ONES, i.e. UNRESERVED AUCTIONS!

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Re: what is the very best
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:14 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Jon wrote:
Forget the buyers' premiums--THE VERY BEST AUCTIONS ARE PURE ONES, i.e. UNRESERVED AUCTIONS!


Absolutly...wish there were more of them these days but...these seem to be a dying breed.

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Re: what is the very best
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:26 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4566
Location: Melbourne Australia




interstatetime wrote:
Jon wrote:
Forget the buyers' premiums--THE VERY BEST AUCTIONS ARE PURE ONES, i.e. UNRESERVED AUCTIONS!


Absolutly...wish there were more of them these days but...these seem to be a dying breed.


Of course they are.

Sellers are wising up as well and they don't want to get reamed either.

It must really piss someone off to sell something at auction with the assurance they will get looked after and get a good price only to find it on ebay a month later for 2 or 3 times what they got.

You can bet London to a brick they will tell everyone what happened to them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:30 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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Well advertised and professionally done auctions with good venues with top goods bring top prices.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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Location: Boston, Ma




And discussions elsewhere continues onward idiotic--why on earth would any auction house issue Used Tax within the PR list? Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:03 pm Reply with quote
scotttzorfas
Chapter Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 402




Somewhat along the lines of this discussion, I was looking at Sothebys auction for next month and there are many high end wrist watches that are being sold (Patek Philippe, Greubel Forsey, Richard Mille, Audemars Piguet, A. Lange & Sohne etc.). Many of these watches were made within the last 10 years and very often within the last 5 years. Why are these current made wrist watches being placed on auction? With the 25% buyers premium and Sellers consignemnt fee, is there really that much profit to be made in this? I really know very little about the selling of high end wrist watches, but could someone shed some light on this for me. I look at Sothebys auctions, because they have interesting watches for sale- ie. a George Daniels collection goes on auction in December of this year. Of course, the prices are beyond reach but interesting watches to look at nonetheless.
Scott

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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WW--High demand, big price swings, fashion statement, speculation, big profits, ego, complications, wearable, easy to store--the most popular horological items of late!

Also, lots of dealer consignments.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:56 pm Reply with quote
scotttzorfas
Chapter Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 402




O.K., the dealers must know what they are doing. But it just seems hard to me to make a profit so soon against the buyers/sellers fees. Then again, the seller (dealer) can negotiate that fee. The dealers are buying the watches from the factory (the company that made the watch?)
Scott
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:15 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5128




Hi Scott -

There are dealers and then there are dealers.

The 2ndary market is bigger than the primary market - new goods.

You have a lot of primary market dealers that have a lot of unsold inventory and they need money to buy new inventory, so they blow out what they have at cost to the secondary market, as placing these unsold watches in auction will get them in a lot of trouble. They are not allowed to resell to anybody other than individuals.

The secondary market dealers - are the ones we all complain about - they are they gougers and speculators - they buy all this stuff at cost or take stuff in trade for below cost.

If they don't have a specific customer in mind for these watches, then they will attempt to recover their cost by placing them in auction. Many times they may make 5 or 10% which is now the normal margin for stuff like this.

The only way you can make a living on 5% margin is volume, which is why you are seeing so much stuff out there lately. And I can tell you as a watchmaker, much of the stuff is crap, so it goes on the round robin until finds a home or gets broken up for parts!

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:23 am Reply with quote
scotttzorfas
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Thank you very much Neil!!! Now I've got it. It makes perfect sense now.
Scott

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:37 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25421
Location: Boston, Ma




Much of this WW stuff (and PW) are speculative purchases--when the inventory gets too large, the unsold remainders have be blown off to buy more goods or raise cash.

The same thing holds true for the watch thugs who speculate and ram PWs--the only difference is they use eBay and web sites.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BP (not British Petroleum)--the latest informercial on......
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