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WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Value Line for Collectors » BP (not British Petroleum)--the latest informercial on...... Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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A different auction house, Ben.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:15 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Jon wrote:
What guy in the middle?


A thing is only worth what the market says it is worth.

I sell and you buy and the auction house takes 10% cut.

The good old days - All fair.

But,

When a bunch of people come along and buy stuff they don't want just to sell it again they have in mind to make a profit.
Then the auction house adds 30% BP and they may add fees to the seller as well and now you have a situation where one of 3 things has to happen.

Either the original seller has to get ripped or the buyer has to get rammed because the price of the thing will likely double through all this or the middle guy has to loose big time.

At the moment I get the impression all 3 of these things are going on.

Sometimes the order is different and the item goes to auction first then gets bought and relisted on ebay again with the hope of making a profit.
Same end result.

The thing that usually gets overlooked is that none of this is doing the hobby of watch collecting any good.
Instead we are reducing the hobby to watch trading.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:08 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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StephanG wrote:

... or the buyer has to get rammed because the price of the thing will likely double through all this


The buyer only gets rammed if he can't do the math. Read what I said. Read what Jon said. Read what Geno said.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:03 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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The profit has to come from somewhere.

If the buyer is paying fair price and the various people through the chain are all having their suck ( remember that 30% BP )then the initial seller got reamed.

If the initial seller got fair value and the buyer paid fair price then the middle guys loose.

Everyone can't win.


My thrust was that through all of this the hobby is loosing because someone is going to end up unhappy.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:24 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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StephanG wrote:

My thrust was that through all of this the hobby is loosing because someone is going to end up unhappy.


Where is it written that everyone should be happy. As long as I have been involved with watches...basically all of my life...people have gotten reamed and taken advantage of. There have always been whiners who didn't do enough work.

Markets change but people don't change much. Pocket watches are not falling out of popularity because more people are getting reamed.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:49 am Reply with quote
Jon
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More on the BP--this is just part of the cost of an item to the buyer, i.e. hammer plus BP=what it sells for and if this is good for you the buyer, then bid.

Why is this so difficult?

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American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:38 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Jon wrote:
More on the BP--this is just part of the cost of an item to the buyer, i.e. hammer plus BP=what it sells for and if this is good for you the buyer, then bid.

Why is this so difficult?


Exactly.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 am Reply with quote
geno
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interstatetime wrote:
Jon wrote:
More on the BP--this is just part of the cost of an item to the buyer, i.e. hammer plus BP=what it sells for and if this is good for you the buyer, then bid.

Why is this so difficult?


Exactly.
Yes the buyers premium is a misnomer, the seller pays for every single fee, insurance, photo, reserve fee's the consignment fee and the the buyers premium, If an object to me is worth 1000 and assuming a 25% buyers fee, my bid is 800. So the total money the object sells for is 1000, what does the seller get. He gets $800 minus all the fee's mentioned that are connected to his consignment. In many instances the total cost to the seller will be 40% or more depending on the auction house. Now look what happens when there is no buyers fee. I can now bid the $1000 and now the seller will get the 1000 minus the fees connected to his consignment, THE BUYER NEVER PAYS. Some sellers just don't get how much it really costs them. Geno
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 11:21 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Great explanation Geno. I always assumed that the seller fees pay for all expenses and the BP is profit to the AH.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 11:32 am Reply with quote
Jon
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Not exactly--some of the "expenses" are negotiated, as are the premiums.

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American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Bryan
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[quote="interstatetime"]
StephanG wrote:

Pocket watches are not falling out of popularity because more people are getting reamed.


I would stop short here - people getting reamed and rammed definitely has a deleterious impact on the market and I think there's been a fair amount of it occurring lately on flebay and other channels!

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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add: auctions and dealers

THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY COLL/BUYERS TRUSTING CATALOGUERS AND DEALERS/SELLERS!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
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American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:50 pm Reply with quote
rrstd
Chapter Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 1553




(Re: Buyers Premiums) - What's the big deal:

The auction company should (within legal limits) get to decide where it does business, what clientele it wishes to target and how it is going to structure its fees. In the end, the entity's goal is to cover it's costs, make a profit and remain in business for itself and it's principals.

The consignor also has the right to choose. They get to choose when, where and how they are going to sell. The best answer to these questions can vary from one individual/collection to the next. If one has a large important collection of high end wrist watches, the answer is likely different than for another individual who has a more moderate collection of common railroad pocket watches. The weight is on the consignors shoulders to research which avenue/company is right for selling their collection.

Finally, the buyer also has a choice. If he finds a buyer premium offensive, he can simply refuse to fid. If enough people refuse to bid at a certain auction house, said auction house will eventually lose money and go out of business.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:00 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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WITH THIS FLOOD/DELUGE OF WATCHES no A H is going out of business!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:12 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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interstatetime wrote:


Where is it written that everyone should be happy. As long as I have been involved with watches...basically all of my life...people have gotten reamed and taken advantage of. There have always been whiners who didn't do enough work.



I agree it has been going on forever but the percentages are getting higher.
Also the number of people dealing is higher as a percentage of the whole which is getting smaller.

How many times do items from auction end up on ebay.
Another lot of profit required for another seller plus the 10% for ebay plus shipping and paypal fees.

Then I read on here about overpriced items on ebay.
How can it be otherwise.

Then we all wax lyrical abut why pocket watch collecting is becoming less popular.

People are not that stupid ( some are ) especially when the internet is making it easier to research stuff.

Every hobby needs dealers and suppliers and I have no problem with that but there is a limit to what it can stand and when everyone starts to buy and sell and wants to make a profit there has to be a limit where it starts to become detrimental to the core activity.

Members of a club, any club, want to be seen as more than just potential customers ripe for the picking.

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BP (not British Petroleum)--the latest informercial on......
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