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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:23 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




Actually, the action is EVERYWHERE BUT the nawcc.

THE GAME HAS CHANGED: to buy watches the exposure has changed to eBay, dealers' lists, private treaty and auctions.

I predict that the watch marts will continue to decrease into oblivion (not clocks*). I do not attend any marts and have quit them since 2006 and my "finds" from all sources, public and private, have increased multifold. Why waste time, monies flying, going to 3rd rate venues, staying in lousy hotels, getting felt up by the TRA(claim TG and get a female to check you), iffy food, high entrance fees and tables ALL IN THE HOPES OF FINDING SOMETHING. (I know one fello who spent 1K to attend a regional, norw he has 2 $500.glass backs to show for it!)

The clock game: prices have been crashing like no other; however, at the ROS recent sale the clocks did very well, sans the expensive tall case Durfee and a few others.

*I recently viewed a Willard TC clock which once was 150K+ sell for 30K (to dealer/collector). Now this is a real loss.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:52 am Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




Lots of guys were given an incentive to go to watchmaking school after WW2, and then hang out a shingle. Even if the shingle didn't hang long, the money created awareness of the craft history, and probably created collectors - the second wave after the small number who starting collecting without a lot of support and published knowledge - the earliest NAWCC members. Add in the huge "club trend" of the 1950s, 60s, 70s, even 80s, and you get the big-time NAWCC.

Now, with social networking, the "club trend" in all its manifestations (Lions, Kiwannis, Elks, NAWCC, you name it) has run its course AND been replaced by narcissitic millenials texting and looking at pictures of each other; not doing anything for the community at large like many of the clubs used to do. I do realize that not all millenials are that way. [And I'm not sure how well video-phone communicating will be accepted, by the way.]

Anyway, most of the action is online now. Ease and laziness around the digital device has replaced getting oneself somewhere to talk to others face-to-face and handle merchandise. [Lots of risk-taking going on these days.]

Will this ever change, or run it's own course? Maybe, but don't hold your breath. I think collecting will remain, but become more and more solitary, and that seems a little like a return to the real old days when certain individuals squirreled away great collections and only insiders knew about them. Values were much lower, but it didn't matter to those who made it their own scholarly pursuit, like Chamberlain and Barclay Stephens. Jon and others learned all they could from those elders to create their own collections, just when the club trend hit full stride. Maybe it's just part pf a cycle.


Last edited by KennyHabeeb on Tue May 31, 2016 12:34 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:58 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5179




Hi Kenny - long time no hear!

Yes, millenials are hard to understand - but they are nonmaterialistic, unlike us.

They want to collect memories and experiences rather than material items.

I agree that whole scope of collecting has permanently changed. I just hope it drives all the crooks out of the hobby.

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:54 am Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




Thanks Neil. I hope so, too!
I'm still buying watches (two very recently), but also busy researching and buying a few old maps and books with maps, because they are also a cool thing to collect [Ortelius, Blaeu, Jansson, Hondius, Visscher, de Fer etc.). I'm a visual guy, after all.
Jon will appreciate this: For $150., I snagged an English book published in 1660 that includes a map of California as an island.

K.
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 5:40 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




Kenny,

I agree with some of the things you are saying but not all of them.
I agree that a lot of clubs have fallen by the wayside but at least in Australia (can't speak for the US ) a lot are still going strong.

I think the way forward is to look at those that are succeeding and try to figure out why.

I believe that the ones doing well are the ones who are seriously trying to cater for their memberships needs.

In this day and age people demand more from their club and if a club provides services and support for its membership that club will succeed.

When the power games start and the leaders do their own thing regardless what the members may want then it is all down hill.

The biggest difference now is that there are far more options out there. Far more ways to spend your time or extra cash so if the club you are in no longer provides what members want they are far more willing to go do something else.

The NAWCC Marts are a classic example of this.
They were once a big reason for people to join and for many I suspect the main reason.
This gave the NAWCC a false sense of security and they did not have to try very hard as people still had to remain members if they wanted to attend.

Now we have the internet and Ebay and those people now have options.
They don't have to go to marts any more and for them what remains is not worth staying a member for. Sad

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:04 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




StephanG wrote:
Kenny,

When the power games start and the leaders do their own thing regardless what the members may want then it is all down hill.

The biggest difference now is that there are far more options out there. Far more ways to spend your time or extra cash so if the club you are in no longer provides what members want they are far more willing to go do something else.

The NAWCC Marts are a classic example of this.
They were once a big reason for people to join and for many I suspect the main reason.

This gave the NAWCC a false sense of security and they did not have to try very hard as people still had to remain members if they wanted to attend.

Now we have the internet and Ebay and those people now have options.
They don't have to go to marts any more and for them what remains is not worth staying a member for.(sic) Sad


YOU NAILED IT and as I stated elsewhere, the game has changed to other venues--the n/a is not a source anymore and never will be again! It was great for the 40+ years I attended marts regularly all over the USA. Good things never last as competition, better cheaper venues persist and leadership drops the ball every time!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:47 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




I have been a member of 2 car clubs over the years.

The MG car club goes out of its way to cater for members and they have just doubled the size of their club rooms to cater for growing numbers.

I was also a member of the Vintage Drivers car club who were once the biggest car club in Victoria but politics got into that one and they have now all but disappeared.

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




Sounds familiar--the bureaucrats want things there way and NEVER listen to the members; thus, look what we have now--an association reeling and ever begging for dollars. 38K to 12K isn't just a lack of horological popularity.

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:03 pm Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




People here used to say that NZ and Oz were 20 or 30 years behind the U.S. for traffic congestion and values etc., and that was a recommendation for life down under. Maybe it's still true socially. I don't know.
K.
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:25 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




That sounds like the NAWCC board talking.

It is always someone elses fault or fashion is to blame or the economy is bad or your country is different or backwards or whatever.

Reminds me of an alcaholic.

Before you will ever succeed with a solution you first have to own the problem.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 12:56 am Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




Stephan, it really does have a lot to do with the culture. The NAWCC board could do everything right by Jon's prescription, and the club would still be up against it for recruiting new members. Very, very few clubs in the U.S. have figured out how to sustain the membership they had twenty years ago. That doesn't mean the NAWCC shouldn't change. It better change, but it's a tough battle within this digital culture.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:23 am Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




Kenny, I think you will find if you care to enquire that Australia has one of the highest uptakes of new digital technology per capita in the world.

You will also find that I and a number of others have been advocating a new level of NAWCC membership for " Intertnet Only" members for YEARS.

If only 1 in 3 took up the option instead of leaving totally you would have 9000 of them just from that let alone any new ones that came along.

People can't take it up if it isn't offered. Sad

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:31 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5179




Well they need to fix the damn website before they start offering that option. I think they need to let people from Hodinkee do it for them.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:16 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25595
Location: Boston, Ma




2 chances on that one, Neil, SLIM & NONE!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:07 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4605
Location: Melbourne Australia




The ironic part is that if they had offered such an option chances are that among those people who took it up there would be those with the smarts to make it better.

You can cut code and build websites from anywhere in the world.

Instead those people were discouraged and went and joined something else.

Those that remain have the best of intentions but they don't have the skill sets needed and we can all see the results.

But enough of this discussion.
Has all been said before and nothing appears to have changed.

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American watch collecting.........
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