|  Chapter 149 Web Site |  Kirx Klox Special Project |  CH 149 MENTORS | 
CHAPTER 149, THE LEADING COLLECTOR'S HOROLOGICAL CLUB, ASSISTS AND EDUCATES ITS MEMBERS>>KEEP UP WITH CURRENT RESEARCH!
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board

The original NAWCC internet chapter
established July 8th, 1990
President & Admin; Jon Hanson
Admin: John LaCambria

Chapter 149, protecting our passion one watch at a time!


Read our Standards of Conduct

login.php?sid=7e3675789eaf2f7c71a1c76cf999d15e profile.php?mode=register&sid=7e3675789eaf2f7c71a1c76cf999d15e faq.php?sid=7e3675789eaf2f7c71a1c76cf999d15e search.php?sid=7e3675789eaf2f7c71a1c76cf999d15e

WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » ASK Rich Newman, assoc chairman » From Tom Bartels Goto page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic  Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:22 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1611




You can't beat 45 years of stare and compare, no matter what you do, or what club or organization you join. Without new blood, the trend is down and it will stay down. The world is simply not the same as it was years ago, where the entry level costs to obtain knowledge were much less than today. You could see vast amounts of great watches in the past and could learn from looking, that is gone forever. The Nawcc will slowly shrink to an old boys social club. Geno
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:15 am Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4601
Location: Melbourne Australia




Again I agree but hiking membership fees and keeping marts and other information services members only isn't going to fix it.

It will just make things worse as more drop out and the hobby becomes more exclusive.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:47 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25594
Location: Boston, Ma




What the n/a should be doing (should have done for years) is promoting horology! It is quite obvious that they have dropped the ball doing this for decades, and thus part of the reason for the drop of 24,000 in membership (plus all the other reasons mentioned time and time again).

The public promotion of horology always should have been a top priority for the n/a. Take a look at other collectibles and the many noteworthy articles which appear almost daily as well on TV.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:34 pm Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




I see way too much emphasis on the gold watch case. Some of the larger auction houses won't even look at your watch unless the case is made of gold. If I was an observer rather than a collector, I might think it was all about the case.
Education is lacking. That, I guess, is part of what Jon means by "the public promotion of horology."
The Antiques Roadshow would be a great vehicle in that it reaches millions, but it's just the same there: the hand-me-down Patek complication in the gold case. What else is new?
Even the clocks on the show are often in unusual cases or forms. Mostly, the superficial.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:32 pm Reply with quote
darrah
Chapter Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 4183
Location: Houston, TX




Every single hobby or special interest group is declining in numbers due to generational aging and with lack of interest of newer generations. They may or may not come back. However, they will usually be filled with more knowledgeable and dedicated persons when and if a special interest comes back in group form. The NAWCC syndicate needs to down size and be more realistic as sad as that sounds. They really need to pay attention to its members and guard them well. No one can force a person to change his or her interest. Those that have horological interests will be there and it is just a matter of keeping the standard high enough that causes them to want to join. Sad to say, it is becoming more exclusive but thought it always had been that way.

Toy train clubs are a perfect example of this. They are losing interest to younger generations because they are not growing up around them as much as in the early days and they are not as impressive as in the past. Who in the hell ever thinks of taking a train trip except an old dude that wants to relive the good old days. Toy train prices are declining except for the quality and rare ones. Sound familiar?

I have noticed lately that fewer and fewer 'experts' are giving advice to the newbies on the web site either because they are dropping like flies or, and I suspect this is more correct, they are just tired of repeating the same answers that have been given before and because many question are, and I hate to say this too but, coming from persons that can't even pick up a book. Perhaps the experienced members are just getting tired of trying to educate others that haven't a clue as to what side of a watch gives the time. I have also slowed down my responses because of this but also because no one attempts to do a quick search of past blogs for answers that would bring about the same results to many of the questions. Too many of these folks want free quick answers without doing any work or investing anything in it themselves. And, if some info requires joining an association to receive it then they should cough up some bucks, join a local Chapter or whatever but current members need to be kept happy and treasured like rare watches. Local Chapters should dictate what the National does and not the other way around. Join local chapters first to see if it is worth joining the Association. I think there would be just as many new members as there have been during the give everything away policy.
The National has given pretty much everything away with little results. Now it is time to shut the doors a little and give current members their just due. I think membership will come back but not as before. If persons want knowledge, they will come. Advertising is good, giving away everything is not.


Last edited by darrah on Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Darrah Artzner
Ch 15, 124, 139, 149, 168
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:59 pm Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




Well said, Darrah.

I'd like to add this:
One can get information about watchmaking online and in books. What is that good for? Nothing close to hands-on instruction or mentoring by a long-time professional.
I can foresee a time when skilled watchmakers are very few, and amateurs with enough knowledge to be dangerous, are plenty.. and lurking!

Why not grow the suitcase schools into a program that would allow people in every state to affordably participate. Would that be too expensive to pull off?
Such an expanded program would keep timepieces other than cell-phones or wrist phones in the public consciousness, as well give at least a good grounding to those who would want to do more than collect.
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25594
Location: Boston, Ma




People are lazy and don't have time or patience to read. Most in watch horology are fast buck artists and want quick answers to grab profits; or they are investors and speculators. Just take a look at some of the younger "HOT SHOTS", their mart activities and their web and eBay weekly sales! FOMO!

I know two serious watch collectors who DO NOT COLLECT OR HAVE ANY BOOKS. These folks tell me that they would rather put their money into more watches! Incredible............

Good post by Darrah and I especially like that long later paragraph. The n/a has never cared about chapters. It is all about the money--take a look at the home web page and the continued begging for money. I have stated for decades that the n/a needs to rethink what they are doing. EVERYTHING DONE TO DATE HAS NOT WORKED. It is time for NEW BLOOD and downsizing--need I again post my NEW MUSEUM SOCIETY price I HAVE REPEATED HERE SEVERAL TIMES?

HOWEVER, I know of two hobbies with large numbers of collectors and enthusiasts--both have been rising and the goods are ever increasing value wise for the most part.

Tagline: Who in the hell wants to educate those who do not care to learn? Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad I have never seen so many knowitalls in horology.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:13 am Reply with quote
KennyHabeeb
Chapter Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 975




Let the "know-it-alls" wallow in their ignorance.

Watchmaking classes would not be for them, but for people who really do want to learn something! Well, at least they are a start. Most people still need a longer term teacher.
Anyway, professional watchmakers are disappearing much faster than collectors!
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:44 am Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4601
Location: Melbourne Australia




I like your last post as well Geno and agree it would be great to see more people join chapters and see what it is all about,

BUT THEY CAN'T unless they join the NAWCC first.

THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE so Chapters can get on with creating a bit if local interest.

They call themselves a charity dedicated to education but they want their money up front.

As for other clubs I am involved in 3.

My local train club has about the same number of members it had when I joined in the late 60s. New ones join at about the same rate old ones die off but the average age is higher now than it was in the past.
More retired people around I suppose.
Also more competition. There was only 2 in Victoria when I joined and now there are at least 8.

The steam club at Lake Goldsmith is streets ahead of what is was when I joined 30+ years ago. A 40 hectare site and they are struggling for room to fit it all in. Now over 100 private building on site. Used to be just a hand full.

The MG car club is also booming and they have just doubled the size of their club rooms.

For some years I was also involved with the local model engineering society. Gave it away when I got into watches. That still meet monthly in the same place and I am told by those who still attend if you don't go early you won't get a seat these days.

The thing I have noticed is that clubs that involve people in many activities appear to do well but ones where members are looked on as just customers, new blood to sell stuff to, appear to be suffering the most.
Why join a club to do the same as you do on ebay.

There is also a group called "Mens Shed"

These are springing up all over the place around here but again the emphasis is men getting together to socialize and do something useful together. They usually fix stuff or build stuff for charity or needy people.

It is not about making money.

You get enough of that stuff at work.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:05 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25594
Location: Boston, Ma




I declare that men should have a hobby.

Watches are small, very reasonable (as compared to coins, guns, art, antiques, etc.) They are historical, mechanical, storable, interesting, artistic, intrinsic, researchable and can still be discovered.

Watches make sense; if bought correctly, they can prove to also be a great storehouse of value.

Still, horology (esp, PW) remains an unknown to much of the collecting world.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:47 pm Reply with quote
darrah
Chapter Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 4183
Location: Houston, TX




StephenG, when I was president of our local Chapter, I allowed non-Nat members in and declared them as guests. Most if not all later joined the Nat. and that policy continues, although informally, today. That is the best success for the National to grow. I believe ya gotta gittem at the front door and not make them come down the chimney.

_________________
Darrah Artzner
Ch 15, 124, 139, 149, 168
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:40 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4601
Location: Melbourne Australia




One of the differences I have noticed about the NAT is the emphasis on buying/selling verses a general appreciation and love of watches.

Now don't get me wrong here we need traders but the balance appears to be a bit to far one way.

My train club has an informal gathering every Thursday morning.
Might be 40 deg outside or pissing down rain.
There is always someone there and visitors are always welcomed.
We also run for local schools or day care centers if they ask cause we want to educate the kids. This has become so popular we have had to limit it so we don't burn people out.
These runs are additional to our monthly open to the public day for which we charge for rides. We advertise open till 4.30 and we are.
Even if you are just sitting making smoke.
We also cater for private birthday parties which we have also had to limit.
Booking are out to 2 years in advance.
There is also a monthly private run for members only and any member can go and use the place himself if he wishes. We all have a set of keys.
We have the same requirement the Nat does as a charity to spend more on public v private stuff and it has never been a problem.

Now consider a Mart. What happens as soon as sales slow down.
Exit stage left.
What sort of education is that giving the next lot of collectors.
You have the building and the thing is advertised.
Wouldn't that be a good time to put on some displays or workshops or whatever to educate new players.

If there was more going on more people might come along.
Get them interested and you might even get a few new members.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25594
Location: Boston, Ma




Stephan, here is the problem:TAKE A LOOK AT MART REGISTRATIONS--they are virtually all tables holders and dealers. Virtually no public (disallowed) and very few pure collectors. A few of the old tappers set up to sell but marts are a dealers' scoop and poop! Also, much is driven by the FOMOs, i.r. the 10%ers that scoop for eBay and then poop out (leave).

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:58 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4601
Location: Melbourne Australia




These days there are hundreds more pleasure activities for people to spend their time and money on.
If we really want new members we have to go out and fight for them.

Meccano still have a following after all these years

http://internationalmeccanomen.org.uk/ISM/Societys/soc.html

and Leggo is still huge and some people spend a small fortune on the stuff.

But you have to create the interest. That's the trick.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25594
Location: Boston, Ma




Watches SHOULD appeal to those mechanically inclined as well as those with a sense or artistry.

Of course, the trick is that these folks have to be located.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
From Tom Bartels
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » ASK Rich Newman, assoc chairman
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT - 6 Hours  
Page 2 of 2  
Goto page Previous  1, 2
  
  
 Post new topic  Reply to topic  


Contact Us
©2006 NAWCC Chapter 149 "Early American Watch Club". OWNER.
FREE Web Hosting and Web Design provided by Web Horology

Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Style by Vjacheslav Trushkin