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ROY-PICTURES!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:08 am Reply with quote
PWhandman
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Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 1765
Location: Niagara Falls,NY




I'm looking at a Roy 14k cased Hampden "Johnnie C." and just not sure about price.
Not sure about a lot to be honest-this would be my first solid gold case,and looking up the current price of gold seems barely a start. I trust the seller,that is not an issue. What is the issue is my ignorance. For one,I can't even estimate what this case weighs. for two,how can I take falling gold prices and etc. into account? Three,what am I missing?
This seems much different than haggling over a pocket watch and pointing out flaws or bells & whistles. Or maybe I'm just a nervous solid gold case virgin. I don't really want to walk away.
Can anyone give an approximate value and compare it to what they would actually want to pay?


Last edited by PWhandman on Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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MartyB
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:17 am Reply with quote
PJR
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Marty, get a total weight then subtract a similar size movement weight. Also allow for case springs, crown, and crystal. I used to keep a small chart in my wallet of weights of different movements. I always kept the value of gold for 14 and 18k in my brain at all times. Don't get into buying gold till you are comfortable of estimating from a glance.
Paul
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:06 am Reply with quote
PWhandman
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Location: Niagara Falls,NY




Paul,thank you. I do have junker Hampden movements,springs,etc. to guesstimate that much anyway. And the seller will be as helpful as possible,and is a friend-that helps.

But still,looking at this as an investment seems to be so different that I'm inclined to think only gold and nothing else. Forget beauty,forget wear or dents etc. and only look at that scale...
Not sure about how much fun collecting solid cases can lead to and just of two minds,my friend. It's like cutting out the soul.
Still-I DO appreciate the beauty in a case and the fact it's solid, and would like at least one.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:21 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Very hard to give a value from a picture Marty. Based on my limited experience with gold cases - and in this case the majority of the value of the watch is in the gold.

18s cases range from 35 DWT to 50+ DWT. The few Roy cases I own are on the lighter side.

I would say $1,500 - $1,600.

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Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:16 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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My guess is that this case weighs 40-42 DWT stripped. If I were buying it I would not pay more than 35% of the total watch weight at 92% of actual melt. Your friend will never get more than that for it and if he puts it on eBay he will get that less the fees. He may not want to sell it for that but I would not buy it for more than that. This is a nice case but it is a bit worn. It is not anywhere near a blazer.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:14 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Man John - you're tough!!

I could take that to a refiner and get 93% of melt!

I'm reading your post again. 35% of total weight meaning with the movement still inside?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:05 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Neilywatch wrote:
Man John - you're tough!!

I could take that to a refiner and get 93% of melt!

I'm reading your post again. 35% of total weight meaning with the movement still inside?


Neil,

I guess I am tough. I am not a gold cased watch collector unless the watch meets at least one of two criteria. First that it might be a gold cased scarce and interesting watch that fits my collection. Second that it might be a gem/blazer of a case. I hope to find watches which fit both criteria.

I don't want to knock this watch. It is an above average specimen. However it fits neither of my criteria. Therefore, why would it behoove me to buy this watch for more than what would allow me to make a profit?

Before anyone starts yelling at me I would not buy this watch with the idea of melting it....though I would not unfriend someone who would do that.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:06 pm Reply with quote
PWhandman
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Location: Niagara Falls,NY




This is the kind of talk I was hoping to HEAR!! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:47 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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PWhandman wrote:
This is the kind of talk I was hoping to HEAR!! Very Happy


What's that Marty - Trash talking among pocket collectors?!?!? Shocked

To me its a simple decision; I collect pocket watches based on the movement brand and other criteria attached to the brand. The case content and type are secondary. I only consider the case when it is very difficult to replace or recase - then I will consider a premium for the case.

You are a Hampden collector - can you acquire this movement for less in a original silver or YGF case? Yes, you could. You will also have to consider that for the price of this watch you can buy maybe 10 more Hampdens instead of tying up all that money.

This why I only have a handful of watches in gold cases when I have a collection numbering in the hundreds.

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Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:56 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Neilywatch wrote:


What's that Marty - Trash talking among pocket collectors?!?!? Shocked

To me its a simple decision; I collect pocket watches based on the movement brand and other criteria attached to the brand. The case content and type are secondary. I only consider the case when it is very difficult to replace or recase - then I will consider a premium for the case.

You are a Hampden collector - can you acquire this movement for less in a original silver or YGF case? Yes, you could. You will also have to consider that for the price of this watch you can buy maybe 10 more Hampdens instead of tying up all that money.

This why I only have a handful of watches in gold cases when I have a collection numbering in the hundreds.


Wise words Neil...although I apologize for any trash talkin'.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:26 am Reply with quote
Jon
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Collectors collect for many reasons but specifically collectors collect what they like (early American, RRs, foreign, hi grade, condition and/or original watches).

Gold watches (mens) are expensive and the finer the case and condition the higher the price; however, various companies and models were original sold in gold cases which many times (for Walthams as example) required special cases which came in GOLD (Premier Max., 19J Nashua, nickel hi-grade 1868 model Walthams, etc., etc.).

With the scrapping issue many watches have become much more difficult to obtain==fewer original watches makes for more re-cases, switches, modified cases or just movement (collecting). Collect RR watches and gold really isn't an issue BUT ORIGINALITY IS (movements, cases, dials, hands).

Consider, the the deeper one goes into collecting the deeper the pockets one has to have!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:02 am Reply with quote
PWhandman
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Location: Niagara Falls,NY




Neil,Paul and John gave me some straight advice on the gold alone. That's what I needed. Dueber and I know each other fairly well; gold and I will never be as close. Smile

When I'm looking at a solid gold case worth 10 or 20 times what the movement is worth,the watch will come second in my estimations of everything. It becomes much more of a financial investment for me than a collected pocket watch. It would be nice to have things the other way around,of course. If it was,I'd already have many solid cases-why not?

I have more faith in the value collectors place on GF,silver,etc. pocket watches than the value placed on gold. Gold is too much of a separate entity,so to speak.

Collecting solid gold cases would split my collection in two. Does anyone here keep there solid gold cased watches mixed in with the others?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:14 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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PWhandman wrote:

Collecting solid gold cases would split my collection in two. Does anyone here keep there solid gold cased watches mixed in with the others?


Marty,

Glad to give advice and sorry if my advice was blunt.

Solid gold cases do not split my collection. I guess if I collected them for the jewelry aspect....because the case is beautiful more than because it is part of a great watch, it might. But, I don't have any gold cases in my collection just because they are beautiful cases. I collect watches. A few of them are in gold cases. The Hamilton 963 in its gold case can sit next to the 962 in its gold filled case anytime.

I forgot to ad one reason why a gold cased watch might find its way into my collection. That is if it has an inscription or a dedication I like. I do have a few gold cases in the collection which simply as watches would not fit or stay but because of the history that the inscription gives it makes it special to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:08 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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My watches in gold cases are mixed in with my silver, GF, and movements. I have my collection organized by size and model.

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Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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One can keep the gold watch locked up for security reasons, this separate.

Who uninformed steals movements?

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American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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ROY-PICTURES!
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