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"The Book"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:45 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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You guys probably all know that aside from American PWs I also deal in, collect and admire vintage, especially '60s and '70s wrist watches, especially what are known as "Tool Watches". These are basically diver's watches, and racing or pilot's watches with chronograph, GMT and day/date/month complications.

Having said that, I always look at the wrist watch section of "The Book" as soon as I get it to see if they have made any updates to the sections on my favorite "tool watches" which are Omega, Heuer (pre TAG), Zenith, etc. I always find that the authors never update.

I could look at this in several ways; I could say why even bother with a wrist watch section? I could also say I am glad they don't bother because maybe some fool will use "the book" as a reference and sell me a cal 321 Speedmaster for what it says they are worth. But, the fact is that it doesn't happen because even the biggest fool knows that prices are set by the market...not books and the market today is eBay.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:45 am Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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John,
That's quite a mouthful, but so true. I collect a lot of wristies myself and have an extensive amount of early 60's and 70's Seiko chrono's that I plan to unload on eBay here soon. I will then use those funds to pick up pocket watches that I want.

As an example: I started collecting Seiko's about 14 years ago and could get any chronograph for $30-$60. Now on eBay they sell for $150-$1,000 (depending on which one's you have). Not a bad time to sell!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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brownsrplm wrote:
John,
That's quite a mouthful, but so true. I collect a lot of wristies myself and have an extensive amount of early 60's and 70's Seiko chrono's that I plan to unload on eBay here soon. I will then use those funds to pick up pocket watches that I want.

As an example: I started collecting Seiko's about 14 years ago and could get any chronograph for $30-$60. Now on eBay they sell for $150-$1,000 (depending on which one's you have). Not a bad time to sell!!


Ray,

I am no Seiko expert but I have always been interested in one of the really early...like 1969-70 automatic Chronos. We might work out a trade.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:18 pm Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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Just let me know what you are looking for, I own most of them.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:24 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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brownsrplm wrote:
Just let me know what you are looking for, I own most of them.


I think the early one is the 6139?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:25 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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brownsrplm wrote:
Just let me know what you are looking for, I own most of them.


I think the early one is the 6139?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:41 pm Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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I have a lot of them, do you have a preference in style and color of dial?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:22 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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brownsrplm wrote:
I have a lot of them, do you have a preference in style and color of dial?


Let me do some research.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:08 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Seriously guys - take it from someone that fixes watches for a living, ALL SEIKOS ARE JUNK!

You want to collect them - more power to you - I think they are the bottom of the bucket in WW quality and collectability.

Put your money in better stuff - seriously!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:10 pm Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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Neil,
I've abused many a watch in my day and never had a Seiko die on me!! The high grade one's in particular really go for a lot these days. Think of it this way, these were made during the height of Japanese quality when they started overtaking us and many other companies around the world. Many realize this and are trying to buy up as many as they can, especially the complicated Chronographs which were mostly 21J Automatics. Very hard to find anything in it's class today.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:48 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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I respectfully disagree with all you say. The Japanese stuff of the 70's is nowhere near as good as the stuff they make now. They started overtaking us because they were cheap and funky, not because they were better.

Many Americans do not differentiate between the quality of the brands, only what appeals to them. The Swiss hate this because the American market responds only to trends, not to quality. All the marketing done in this country has almost nothing to do with the quality of the watch.

They (Seikos) are not good timekeepers, they are not finished well, and once the barrel wears through its bushing and tips over, the watch is done, it cannot be repaired.

As for the 6139 these use a integrated column wheel chronograph wheel that doubles as a 4th wheel. Because of their design they actually work better when the chronograph is running. When the chronograph is turned off, then the watch continues to run and eventually wears out the brake spring on this wheel. Once the brake wears out, the wheel is done and the watch will not run unless this part is replaced.

Good luck finding this part - it will cost you as much as the whole watch itself.

Again Ray, its a free country and you should collect what you like, but I've been collecting 23 years, and went through ALL the stages. I am only speaking from experience.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
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Neil,

Go over to WatchUSeek and say that Razz Razz

I'm not disagreeing with you, although my experience is limited to the Seiko 5 series(which are essentially a throw-away mechanical). I'm wondering, however, if you've had a chance to examine or work on one of the newer Grand Seiko pieces. I know little about them, but they're held in high regard on certain wristwatch sites.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:13 pm Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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Any of the higher end Seiko's that were not allowed into the U.S. due to import taxes after Vietnam are extremely good watches. They go up to 30 or more jewels on some of them. I own several 27J Bellmatics, which incidentally sell like they are solid gold or something. They are a high quality watch.

It's like arguing over whether you like working on domestic or foreign vehicles. Most of us in my field would cuss every time a foreign car would come in the shop because it was so small and hard to work on. But, with proper maintenance they last just as long or longer than domestic vehicles.

I just didn't like getting cut up every time I tried to put my hands into the engine compartment or up under the dash.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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To Ben-

The Grand Seikos, The Seiko Chronometers, and the Seiko Spring Drives are excellent and well made watches. Most of them retail in the $5,000 range. They are also so rare in this country that I have never seen or worked on one yet.

The Bell-matics I have worked on a few. They are murder with all the little springs in the movement. But are very popular because they are fitted with an alarm feature. They are about the same quality as the 6139's but because they don't have the combined chronograph column wheel they last much longer.

To all - keep in mind that what a collector sees and what watchmakers sees are 2 different things. The people on watchuseek probably never have taken down a watch or tried to regulate them or replace obsolete parts on them.

My Bet is that just like what happened to the Rolex bubblebacks, The Hamilton Electrics, the Swatches, and the Accutrons. The Seikos will be hot and run their course. Once people realize the challenge of keeping these watches running and finding spare parts for them, the interest will wear off.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:58 pm Reply with quote
brownsrplm
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Neil,
Accutron's are still popular aren't they? I know I haven't seen a Swatch in a long time. I did fix a Bon-Ton for a guy a while back that was similar to a swatch, but that's it.
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"The Book"
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