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Real, or not real?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Here is a Waltham model 1899 2-tone grade 620 that an eagle-eyed fellow 149er pointed out to me.

I have never seen this type of 2-toning pattern before. Have any of you?

Thoughts appreciated.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:50 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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I believe there are some private label Wallies for TASCO or The Albert Samuels Comany in San Fran with close to the same pattern.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:40 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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I have those - I'll dig them out and compare the work.

I only asked because the toning is not very "accurate" around the center - then there is that "Spot" right on the end of the train bridge.

Almost like someone worked on it with a pen plater.

BUT, I have seen Illinois PW's with this same kind of "loose" toning - and these were recognized as authentic.

Which is why I was asking ~

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:07 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Ya know...the more I look at it and after what you just said above, it does look really sloppy Neil. What does Jon have to say?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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He hasn't commented yet.

Im thinking to post this on the GB and see what people have to say - not too many Wallies experts over there, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Jon
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It looks odd, esp the toning on the cock and that "spot"; unkless the fakers are making this stuff of which I am nit aware, it looks ok to me. However, tat spot sure does bother me--maybe they just made an error?

Sure, go ahead and GB post and get all those crazy speculative comments which will further confuse you.

Rolling Eyes

The real answer is to keep looking for another to validate what you have.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:26 pm Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Jon wrote:


Sure, go ahead and GB post and get all those crazy speculative comments which will further confuse you.

Rolling Eyes


I completely agree with Jon. What are you going to get from the green board but confusion and noise.... except maybe a bit of stupid fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:27 pm Reply with quote
S Mercer
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Neil

Your question about the two toning reminded me about this thread:


http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ch149mb/viewtopic.php?t=19834

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:18 am Reply with quote
Jon
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interstatetime wrote:
Jon wrote:


Sure, go ahead and GB post and get all those crazy speculative comments which will further confuse you.

Rolling Eyes


I completely agree with Jon. What are you going to get from the green board but confusion and noise.... except maybe a bit of stupid fun.


Well, John, Neil bent over to the Green Boarders--WHAT A TREASURE TROVE OF KNOWLEDGE BY THOSE "EXPERTS" THAT BLOVIATE THERE? I seriously doubt that those there even understand the question, much less what a 620 is?

Rolling Eyes Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:13 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Well, as of the time of this writing there are no really outrageous comments on the GB. I suppose one possible outcome of getting it in front of more people over there is that someone may actually have another example.

I find the gold flashing of the hubs of the winding and ratchet wheels a little suspicious too...but who knows???

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:06 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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Hey Guys -

I value your opinions more than anybody else, but like Jon said, the only way to validate this example is to find another one.

There are lot of people over the GB that have stuff that they may not know what it is, but they may jump up screaming "I have one of those!".

Thats what I was hoping for.

John - I do have examples with plated WW hubs, screws and regulators. The part I had not seen was the center plated as you see it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:08 am Reply with quote
Neilywatch
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S Mercer wrote:
Neil

Your question about the two toning reminded me about this thread:


http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ch149mb/viewtopic.php?t=19834


I had this in mind when I first saw the above watch. Right now it seems people are leaning towards it being authentic, so I feel comfortable about it. But it would help to find or be made aware of a 2nd one.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:26 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
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Jon wrote:
It looks odd, esp the toning on the cock and that "spot"; unkless the fakers are making this stuff of which I am nit aware, it looks ok to me. However, tat spot sure does bother me--maybe they just made an error?

Sure, go ahead and GB post and get all those crazy speculative comments which will further confuse you.

Rolling Eyes

The real answer is to keep looking for another to validate what you have.


If someone made this with a pen plater, and it sold, what's to stop him making another ?

For the record I am going to vote for fake based on the screws that hold the winding gears in place. When you look at them close up they have damage from screw drivers but there is no silver showing which suggests they were plated after the damage occurred.
Of course this might be a repair but it is another vote for fake and the votes are stacking up.
It does prove someone had a plater.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Tmodel
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This is my 2 cents worth. The Tu-tone is legit including the tip. The centers of WW are different color gold. Fake or what happened I don't know. But the Tu-tone is good to go.

I got my opinion by stare and compare to other 16s movements.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:59 am Reply with quote
interstatetime
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Well, it looks like the discussion on the Green Board is about as informative and conclusive as the discussion here.

The more I look at the photo, the more I am leaning toward it having been done after the factory. Mind you, I am just leaning but I can't imagine that someone as astute and experienced as Neil would not be able to tell with the watch in hand.

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Real, or not real?
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