|  Chapter 149 Web Site |  Kirx Klox Special Project |  CH 149 MENTORS | 
CHAPTER 149, THE LEADING COLLECTOR'S HOROLOGICAL CLUB, ASSISTS AND EDUCATES ITS MEMBERS>>KEEP UP WITH CURRENT RESEARCH!
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board

The original NAWCC internet chapter
established July 8th, 1990
President & Admin; Jon Hanson
Admin: John LaCambria

Chapter 149, protecting our passion one watch at a time!


Read our Standards of Conduct

login.php?sid=123f02021418d0142560066c611887d5 profile.php?mode=register&sid=123f02021418d0142560066c611887d5 faq.php?sid=123f02021418d0142560066c611887d5 search.php?sid=123f02021418d0142560066c611887d5

WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » The Watch Collectors' Journal » SCRAPPERS, AS FROM THE NAWCC MB--EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION
Post new topic  Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic 
SCRAPPERS, AS FROM THE NAWCC MB--EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25615
Location: Boston, Ma




Marts and gold scrappers

#1 Yesterday at 2:35 PM
Yesterday I was at a Mart of one of the 3 chapters that I belong to. Two
people down from my own table was a gold scrapper with a scale right in front of them.
It's not hidden in any way(and I'm not saying they should hide it)
The person had a large pile of Gold Filled pocket watch cases on the scale that someone was scrapping.
I know it's inevitable that cases are going to be scrapped, and I do understand that.
What I don't like is that it's at a NAWCC mart. I didn't say anything to the
organizers because if it's acceptable to them, then I don't want to make
waves. But, my son who was with me expressed disappointment when he saw
all those usable watch cases being scrapped, and I didn't feel good
about it either. You can find scrappers and gold buyers on every corner
these days so I think people should scrap these somewhere else
that is not sanctioned by the NAWCC.

Rob
Omexa
Omexa
Registered User
Feb 28, 2010
4,294

#2 Yesterday at 2:54 PM
Hi Rob, I do agree with you. Lynching and Stocks come to mind when on this subject!!! Regards Ray
sprio
sprio
Registered User
NAWCC Life Member
Jul 29, 2005


us texas
#3 Yesterday at 4:11 PM
Sounds like a violation of section A.3 of the Member's Code, which states: Members shall support the collection and preservation of horological items and knowledge, not engage in activities that encourage the loss of these to posterity, and shall take reasonable and proper care of all horological items in their possession.
richiec
richiec
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Feb 24, 2007
5,913

automotive warranty inspector
Brick, Ocean, NJ
usa

us new jersey
#4 Yesterday at 6:58 PM
As you know, Music Guy, I experienced that multiple times at the local chapter I used to go to and haven't been back as the only activity these days at those marts, other than myself buying stuff from others, was others buying gold filled cases just for the scrap after they profess they are watchmakers while there is no watch material worth a spit at their tables. They are out early to see what is displayed and then make the rounds later in the mart when they think you will sell just to make a few bucks, they do not pay anything near true value. I think they should get the heave ho from the marts.
musicguy likes this.
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member

#5 Yesterday at 7:07 PM
Richie the person who had the cases to scrap is someone you do know and
he did exactly what you said above.
They are out early to see what is displayed and then make the rounds later in
the mart when they think you will sell just to make a few bucks, they do not pay anything near true value
This isn't the same chapter I originally met you at, but it's the same exact person. The other
person who pays for a table and has the scale is someone I don't
think you know. So it's multiple people.

I would just like the "powers that be" send out a letter to all chapters
and ask them not to have scrappers there with scales. Only
there for that reason.


Rob
richiec
richiec
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Feb 24, 2007
5,913


us new jersey
#6 Yesterday at 7:18 PM
I think I know who you are talking about, Nyet
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
2,082
268
83
New York State
usa
#7 Yesterday at 7:24 PM
correct
MartyR
MartyR
Super Moderator
NAWCC Member
Donor
Dec 16, 2008
10,356

#8 Today at 5:49 AM
I have to tell you a little story about when I went to the Birmingham Clocks and Watches Fair about 10 years ago.

I saw on a table a gold-cased Roskell watch which interested me. I took my scale out of my pocket and put it on the table, which produced the following conversation:

Seller: You can't weight it, I don't sell watches for scrap.
Me: But I need to know what the gold in the case is worth.
Seller: The price has nothing to do with the gold value.
Me: That's fine, I'll offer you £200 for the watch.
Seller: £200 Confused The gold is worth more than that!
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2002
5,403

Working the farm, Garden,horses, goats, chickens,
Decatur, TN.
usa

us tennessee
#9 Today at 9:30 AM
The 2 NAWCC long term & loyal members, Bill Beams & Irv Baird, who I have attended shows with for over 20+ are good people and this thread is a disservice to them.

They also buy 4-6 tables per show which is full of nice GF & Gold cases that are to nice to melt.

Complaints like this usually come from newer members who see this activity going on but don't bother to ask questions or look closely at the goods being sold.

They also buy old batteries,silver, etc.
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017

New York State
usa
#10 Today at 10:17 AM Last edited: Today at 10:27 AM
Complaints like this usually come from newer members who see this activity going on but don't bother to ask questions or look closely at the goods being sold.
That was rude

Jim before you tell me I'm doing a disservice, you don't know that I didn't
ask questions. The person who buys gold cases at the show that
I'm talking about DOES NOT sell gold cases at the mart they scrap them. They told me
that this is what they do for a living(this is their job). The other person who also buys gold cases
does not sell them either. The scrapper is a nice person I've talked to them
many times their table was next to mine. But they are 100% scrapers.
The other scrapper is not a nice person and always tries to take advantage of sellers.

Your friends Bill Beams & Irv Baird are different from the people I'm talking about.


Rob
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2002


us tennessee
#11 Today at 10:34 AM
Rob,

Did you examine the cases in question? If so, could you tell if they were buffed to such a high degree that it would be very hard to determine if they would turn to bass in a month or so,after the polishing wears off? What appears to you to be a nice case, is most likely polished to the max.

It wouldn't make sense to scrap good case when they will sell for more than scrap to anyone who wants a nice case.

You are also looking over the fact that these people are NAWCC members in good standing and there are NOT specific rule against it.

If you want a cause to complain about take on the STEAMPUNK issue, however I will warn you in advance, that it will be almost impossible to prove that they are breaking up good clocks or watches.

Your other recourse would be to file an ethics complaint, Good Luck
musicguy
musicguy

New York State
usa
#12 Today at 10:41 AM
I'm not sure why you are fighting with me, you were not there
and don't even know these people. I posted here because
it bothered me. I'm sorry that you disagree.

Rob
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2002


us tennessee
#13 Today at 10:51 AM
Rob,
I am not fighting with you.

I am making the argument to point out the obvious, that Gold filled or Gold cases that are worn out can be scrapped without a attitude like you have.

Look at it like recycling. You didn't answer my questions but rather take offense that everyone doesn't agree with your complaint.

I am sorry but that is not the ways things work. You have stated your opinion and when an opinion that differs with your is presented you take offense and call me rude
.
Why would me asking you if you really examined the cases and knew for sure they were good cases be considered rude.

There are usually several sides to a discussion and you seem offended if presented with a opposing point
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member

#14 Today at 11:06 AM
You didn't answer my questions but rather take offense that everyone doesn't agree with your complaint
I didn't answer the question because I decided not to continue fighting
about this with you. You were not there. You have a strong opinion on this in the same way that I do(on the other side).
I do respect your opinion. I'm not sure when you say, " but rather take offense that everyone doesn't agree with your complaint"
because you are the only one so far in this thread who has disagreed. There are people in this
exact same thread who have met some of these people and they know
what I'm talking about.

There are usually several sides to a discussion and you seem offended if presented with a opposing point
I wasn't offended with an opposing point, I was offended in the way you said it.
See post #10


Rob
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User

Decatur, TN.
usa

us tennessee
#15 Today at 11:44 AM
Rob,
Your opening post has several conflicting statements in it.

musicguy said: ↑
I know it's inevitable that cases are going to be scrapped, and I do understand that.
musicguy said: ↑
What I don't like is that it's at a NAWCC mart.
If you had a pile of worn out cases to scrap wouldn't it be more convenient to get rid of them there, rather than mail them or drive across town?

musicguy said: ↑
all those usable watch cases being scrapped
Do you know for sure if they were usable? Did you examine them? Could you tell if they were buffed up to look good?



musicguy said: ↑
I think people should scrap these somewhere else
that is not sanctioned by the NAWCC
This is the real dilemma. It is sanctioned by the NAWCC, so you do have an avenue to appeal to.


Also, my point was you didn't really know if the cases were good or not and I said, why would they do that when they could easily sell for more than GF scrap.
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
2,082
268
83
New York State
usa
#16 Today at 12:53 PM
Your opening post has several conflicting statements in it.
(said in a nice way) we can't even agree on what you consider conflicting statements.Wink

lets leave it at that. Smile


Rob
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2002
5,403
69
48
Male
Working the farm, Garden,horses, goats, chickens,
Decatur, TN.
usa

us tennessee
#17 Today at 1:54 PM
Rob,
I pointed your conflicting statements in post 15.

In summary you are complaining about scrappers and especially them being present in a NAWCC mart but you say,


musicguy said: ↑
I know it's inevitable that cases are going to be scrapped, and I do understand that.
Dick C
Dick C
Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,391
19
38
Male
usa
#18 58 minutes ago
The old meets the new or the new meets the old.
musicguy
musicguy
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
2,082
268
83
New York State
usa
#19 56 minutes ago Last edited: 39 minutes ago
Lot's of things are inevitable Jim. That doesn't mean
I agree with it, or condone it.

I'll say it in a more direct manner, I don't believe that the National Association
of Watch and Clock Collectors, Inc should be directly involved in the destruction of any horological
items.

I do believe that any individual should be able to do whatever they want with
what they own(as long as it's within the law).

EDIT.....If this puts me in a small minority here then I'm not going to
hang around much longer.




Rob
Omexa
Omexa
Registered User
Feb 28, 2010
4,294
79
48
#20 37 minutes ago
A Case scrapped is a Case lost forever; Gold Plated Cases can be, if a rare Case be re-plated. American Cases; there are plenty of them around so it is not much of a problem, but Verge and Fusee Cases are custom made to fit the movement. Regards Ray
Jim Haney
Jim Haney
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Sep 21, 2002
5,403
69
48
Male
Working the farm, Garden,horses, goats, chickens,
Decatur, TN.
usa

us tennessee
#21 37 minutes ago
Rob,
I see your point However, You have not address the questions I have asked you several times about the condition of the item being scrapped.

Until you can verify that this person is scrapping perfectly good cases, you don't have a point.

I have pointed out several times about checking these for wear because most will buff them up to hide the wear, so you see a pile of cases being scrapped and may be jumping the conclusion that they are good cases.
??
Keith R...
Keith R...
Registered User
NAWCC Member
Nov 27, 2012
3,752
192
63
Male
Retired Sr. Proj. mgr,
South
usa

us kentucky
#22 3 minutes ago
They should be banned from Marts.

Keith R...

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:45 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1618




It's easy to shoot your mouth off when you don't have skin in the game. Geno
View user's profile Send private message
lots of experts--NOT!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25615
Location: Boston, Ma




AND, Geno, as we know there are quite a few of them in the association.

If some of the members (or anyone) who have junk gold watches would have scrapped them when gold was 16, 1700 an oz. they could have used those funds to upgrade their collections during this GREAT buying opportunity of the past 4 years--THEN, these folks could have had better or improved their collections substantially. As a result they still have the same old junk worth less money!

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Neilywatch
Chapter Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 5191




IMO, NAWCC should not be allowing scrappers to set up in the marts.

Whether a case is worn or not is a very subjective perspective. What is worn to one person may still be acceptable to another.

By letting them set up, it can be seen as contradicting their core mission which is the preservation of timepieces.

If people have cases to scrap, they should arrange to do so with scrappers at a time separate from the marts/meetings.

_________________
Neil - Crazy for Walthams!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:28 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4625
Location: Melbourne Australia




This reminds me of the time My Brother won an award at his car club for the " BEST IN SHOW "
It was an Alpha Montreal and he did lavish a huge amount of time on it getting it just right.

He proudly brought the trophy around to show me and I looked at it and started to laugh.

What's up he wanted to know ???

I pointed to the small print at the bottom of the dedication and asked if he had read it.

It said - " Proudly Sponsored by Sims Metal "

https://www.simsmm.com.au

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
SCRAPPERS, AS FROM THE NAWCC MB--EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » The Watch Collectors' Journal
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT - 6 Hours  
Page 1 of 1  

  
  
 Post new topic  Reply to topic  


Contact Us
©2006 NAWCC Chapter 149 "Early American Watch Club". OWNER.
FREE Web Hosting and Web Design provided by Web Horology

Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Style by Vjacheslav Trushkin