|  Chapter 149 Web Site |  Kirx Klox Special Project |  CH 149 MENTORS | 
CHAPTER 149, THE LEADING COLLECTOR'S HOROLOGICAL CLUB, ASSISTS AND EDUCATES ITS MEMBERS>>KEEP UP WITH CURRENT RESEARCH!
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board

The original NAWCC internet chapter
established July 8th, 1990
President & Admin; Jon Hanson
Admin: John LaCambria

Chapter 149, protecting our passion one watch at a time!


Read our Standards of Conduct

login.php?sid=e3462d540ebd67bde1186f7f63816c5c profile.php?mode=register&sid=e3462d540ebd67bde1186f7f63816c5c faq.php?sid=e3462d540ebd67bde1186f7f63816c5c search.php?sid=e3462d540ebd67bde1186f7f63816c5c

WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Discussions » "Tips on combatting scrapping" from green bored Goto page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic  Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic 
"Tips on combatting scrapping" from green bored
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:49 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




Dr J said:

Sometimes you just accept the inevitable.

There are still a lot of not very fine watches out there in gold cases. I have a few now which are just not up to the standards for what I buy now. If I do sell them I'll probably scrap them. This is especially true for ones that need a lot of work or are in poor shape cosmetically. I'll make some effort like a mart or the NAWCC buy and sell but Ebay is real problem and having someone else do it takes too large a bite.

Live auction sale on this stuff is going to come in at about scrap. After the fees, I am way below what I'd get as scrap and the chances are that the buyer is going to scrap it anyway. It's less time and more money to cut out the middle.

On the other hand, the really good stuff has gotten rarer and more valuable as a result of this, as even generic gold watches become rarer and consequently eventually more valuable.

I am not buying for the money but I feel no obligation to take bath to save a decent but not uncommon and otherwise unsaleable watch.

I could and do look for alternatives such as a swap but my time is also worth some money and I am not going to devote an inordinate amount of time to try to save a mediocre watch I can not find any reason to love, whether on old purchase of mine or something someone wants me to "save".

There are a lot of watches i do "love" and I'll happily "save" them when I can but I am not going to take a bath or spend a lot of time one a watch I no longer care about nor am I going to divert my resources from buying what I like to save stuff I don't.

Bryan E replies:

Very well stated Jon.

I would add that while always preferable (and reassuring) to locate a steward to look after a common or off condition gold watch for one more lifetime, it has become incredibly more difficult in these last 10 years. This market has become increasingly thinner, and disproportionately dominated by individuals with little to no funds. I have become increasingly convinced in this last year that this market is cursed with fear, inability to authenticate originality, general lack of funds, and a growing aura of hucksterism - just look at the crap on eBay and the people in the Mart rooms, it's no wonder investors don't take pocket watches (or the NAWCC) seriously! The presence of professionalism and academia in this hobby is virtually dead, and that's why it's failing.

If people are too cheap, ignorant, or disinterested to support the market then there is no choice but to scrap - to hell with them.

Best ever reply to this important issue!

Here is the thread:

http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?129067-Tips-on-combatting-scrapping&highlight=horological+education

Join in and share your views on SCRAPPING!

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:59 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4812
Location: Melbourne Australia




Go back to the 1960's and there were a lot of people scrapping old steam stuff because they could get more for the weight in iron , which was high at the time, than they could get for the items.

Roll on to today and boy oh boy are those same people sorry.

Only time will tell but I can be certain of one thing.

Once they are gone they are gone forever and every one that gets melted means the few I have get that bit rarer.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:09 pm Reply with quote
434richmond
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 634
Location: Raywick, Kentucky




I did respond and I took issue with calling pocket watches
an investment. Now granted, I don't sell them, I buy them,
and I only use the fat book as a guide. But calling them
investments is a poor of choice words in my opinion. Now if
you're a seller to make a living, it's an income stream.

One could also take issue with my strategy, I don't plunk down
5k for a pocket watch. Now if I find a good stock and the PE ratio
hovers less than 10 and I can get a yield paying $2.42 share in
hopes to sell after 18 months with a 20% capital gain, that's an
investment. If I grab 100 acres and hold it 12 months and unload
for price + in/out and 30% I've at least made 12% after Uncle
Sams's 18% without rollover, (that's an investment).

Keith

_________________
NAWCC 163409
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




Watches should be an enjoyable hobby.

These clowns that jump in and buy as an investment or speculate without doing their homework always lose and then run from the hobby.

Same is true for many of the dealers who ARE DOING NOTHING LESS that SPECULATING (hoping) that some fool will pay more for this or that. The greedy ones get killed because just how many common RRs and other uncased movements and recased/switched kaka can one drive down the buyers' throats?

The two important items I repeat constantly.

1. Don't spend more that you can afford to lose.

2. There is no substitute than doing your homework--KNOWLEDGE IS KING!

Tagline: Buy wisely and conservatively, be patient and you will do well over the long run.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:18 am Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3461
Location: OH




434richmond wrote:


One could also take issue with my strategy, I don't plunk down
5k for a pocket watch.
Keith


Why not?

_________________
Bryan Eyring
NAWCC#132532
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:30 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




$5K for one or 5K for 5, 10 or 20==IT IS THE SAME MONEY.

For a GEM 5K watch it might be easier to sell one than 5, 10 or 20 cheapies and/or more common watches.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:28 am Reply with quote
434richmond
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 634
Location: Raywick, Kentucky




I do bigger chunks with stocks or land. Look at the cost of a new Diesel
truck, that's 60k and as soon as you drive it off the lot, there goes 10%
or more.

Take a repeater pocket watch for example, do you really want to
plunk 3k down to just service one?

Jon's probably right, 5k one watch or 5k for 5 watches.

Now I might would plunk down 5k for a major find that's in the
field from some farmer and it was virgin.

Keith

_________________
NAWCC 163409
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:08 am Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3461
Location: OH




434richmond wrote:
I do bigger chunks with stocks or land. Look at the cost of a new Diesel
truck, that's 60k and as soon as you drive it off the lot, there goes 10%
or more.

Take a repeater pocket watch for example, do you really want to
plunk 3k down to just service one?

Jon's probably right, 5k one watch or 5k for 5 watches.

Now I might would plunk down 5k for a major find that's in the
field from some farmer and it was virgin.

Keith


I'm not following any of this. In the first sentence you're talking about making larger investments in more fluid markets and then in the second you're talking about depreciation. Then in the third you're talking about service/maintenance costs.

Your last statement has me completely lost - so are you saying that unless it comes from a virgin source it's no good? I see you buy all kinds of doctored up and incorrect items from non-virgin sources so please elaborate.

_________________
Bryan Eyring
NAWCC#132532
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




I thought Keith was talking about an expensive "virgin" of the woods reclining in a field.

Laughing

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:37 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1670




Scrapping exists because collector interest in that item is below the intrinsic value of the item. There are millions of dollars of gold watches scrapped annually, to suggest that someone or some entity could save them is naive. If such a program were in place would they keep saving gold watches as they watch the price drop from the 1900's to where it is today? The real issue is knowing the difference of when to scrap and when not to. Busted hinges, badly worn or dented common gold watches simply do not have the collector interest. Scrapping generally, but not always comes down to condition, there are many collectors who will pay a premium over scrap very crisp high condition examples, but this is mostly for hunting cases. Obviously, there are rare cases pertaining to certain movements and the Howard, Waltham 72's and repeater and chronograph cases to a lesser degree still would bring a premium depending on wear. These same collectors simply don't want worn cases at all or would not even pay the intrinsic gold price. Geno
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3461
Location: OH




Jon wrote:
I thought Keith was talking about an expensive "virgin" of the woods reclining in a field.

Laughing


this is obviously just a big joke to you

_________________
Bryan Eyring
NAWCC#132532
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




No, I was attempting to understand of the meaning of the last post.

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Bryan
Chapter Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 3461
Location: OH




Where is Keith anyway? Has our new member gotten "lost" in the "fields" of horology, seeking his "virgins"? Laughing Laughing Laughing

_________________
Bryan Eyring
NAWCC#132532
View user's profile Send private message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 25994
Location: Boston, Ma




One of my favorite saying, "the more the merrier!"

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:08 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4812
Location: Melbourne Australia




Actually if I look at my watch collection in purely dollar terms the small collection of dollar watches I have put together have appreciated the most over what I paid for them.

But I can see where Keith is coming from.

If my motivation was to make money I could put all the time and effort I have spent on watches into say the stock market or the property market and I suspect I would have done way, way better than any profits I am likely to make from my watches.

I still believe business and pleasure don't mix.

Whatever you decide to do ends up either one or the other.

If you are in it for fun you might make a dollar or two but it will never become a hugely profitable concern.

If you are in it to make money you might enjoy it along the way but you will never know the pure joy a devoted enthusiast derives from his chosen passion.

_________________
Learning all the time.

Proud member of CH149 and Global Horology
View user's profile Send private message
"Tips on combatting scrapping" from green bored
WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » Pocket Watch Discussions
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT - 6 Hours  
Page 1 of 2  
Goto page 1, 2  Next
  
  
 Post new topic  Reply to topic  


Contact Us
©2006 NAWCC Chapter 149 "Early American Watch Club". OWNER.
FREE Web Hosting and Web Design provided by Web Horology

Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Style by Vjacheslav Trushkin